y a women :-(( i want to be a man

This sounds like it will be really cool. I agree that this time of history doesn't get a lot of attention (maybe it is still too sore a subject, or perhaps people tend to forget such things...)

McCarthy-ism was terrible, ruined the lives of many Americans because their name was smeared as being Communists and sympathizers...it will be very different and thrilling coming at the era/scenario from the other side of the coin.

A lot of McCarthyism was hype, and McCarthy epitomized the foolishness of the time. Still, it's an interesting era. You have a lot of political unrest and fear, and there really were spies on both sides (the USSR and the US). Of course, the number of spies there actually were was ridiculously overhyped, and the public awareness of them was manipulated by those who sought to benefit from making the public scared.

I'm not going to go deeply into the politics, as that's still very sore, and there'll probably be only glancing looks at actual historical figures.

I dont mind playing as a female if the game is good

no me want male plz farside let us chose our sex

@irule9344

I'll think about it. It could probably work with both sexes. I kinda wanted to dig into something with a female focus, but I'll definitely consider making both sexes an option.

yeah!!!!

Might I also make a small question? Could we be a double agent?

Awesome a great plot! A question could be diferent comunism backgrounds? For instance from a fall noble family, a farmer, from a soviet family but your father killed by Stalin Trosky style.

@TheFateReaper

Why not? That'd be fun if your character had the choice to defect to the American side or to trick the Americans into thinking she's on their side.

@MaraJade

Different backgrounds are in the plan.

It's all very sketchy now, of course. I'll have to finish Poppies before moving on to this.

Being able to play as a soviet spy is cool.

And it amuses me to think that it would be female-character only. Hahahaha!

Whooooo Russia !!! Russia issss cool
And the story sounds verry good

Ah, the hysteria nations may descend into when they lack aristocratic reserve.

I would urge you to keep this game female-only, since you may then realistically express the seduction and persuasion aspects. Giving a male option here would simply involve changing "She" to "He" throughout the work, and creating a character that nobody feels attached too because their gender doesn't quite match their actions or surroundings.

@Drazen a male can be very persuasive... Rusia use a lot of charming cubanos and rusian male to seduce cia secretaries woman but first men to blackmail them.Thinking that a man cant seduce is machism.

Nah he is just sexist.

Sounds interesting... But you Aren't going to abandone blood for poppies, are you?

@Kitty

She says she isn't in her first post. So don't worry this is just her next project.

Ok. Thanks for the info :)

You're welcome.

@Farside I enjoyed Blood for Poppies and look forward to this project when you get to working on this one too :)

All I want to add is please include the option to have a male character.
While it would be somewhat more work as men and women do and cannot not always use the same techniques, saying that men cannot charm and seduce their way through life if blessed with the necessary talents (which I assume is sort of a given for a field agent assigned to infiltrate) is just plain wrong.
While women may be more likely to be underestimated by a certain portion of society a man could just as easily infiltrate the US, for example handsome features, Caucasian ancestry (i.e. white, an unfortunately not inconsiderable advantage in the US of the fifties and sixties) and six pack abs combined with a flawless "American" accent and a modicum of acting skills can easily be used to project an image of the quintessential all American boy.

To clear the air here, this choice isn't because I think men can't seduce or anything like that. Men are just as capable as being subtle agents of seduction and trickery as a woman. We're all human beings, not strictly male or female. The reason I chose to make this female-only is simply that many stories choose to focus on the male perspective, which is fine, but I want to focus on the female. That's it, honestly. It's nothing more complicated than that. :)

Part of the danger of including a male would also be retreading the whole James Bond thing.

@idonotlikeusernames

I do like the picture you paint of a male main character playing off of the American dream and the American ideal of masculinity in order to manipulate the public's sentiments. I could see this sort of character becoming an athlete or movie star.

I'll seriously consider adding a male option, but only because I see that the game could be enriched by the option.

The focus will always be subtle espionage and trickery, however, male option or no. So no real action hero stuff or blowing shit up (mostly).

@Nocturnal_Stillness

Thanks! I'm rather excited to work on all my projects.

Don't bother with a male character, I dont like how it's okay for a game to have an only male choice and no women complain but when it's only female at least one guy says he wants a male character. I dont mind playing as a female at all, it'd be fun to see things from the other side.

@Patch101

I take it you never looked at the old vendetta topic or the legion of rome topic? They both had female forum members complain about it originally being male only.

Personally I don't mind whether the main character is male or female only as long as it suits the story.

It's difficult. I understand where people are coming from. Nobody likes to be excluded. At the same time it's very difficult to create mono-gender games without backlash, and any game that attempts to define the MC's gender inevitably becomes a discussion of that rather than the game. People assume you're trying to make some sort of statement about gender when you make your game mono-gender, which really isn't the case. Sometimes, for whatever nebulous reason, mono-gender may just fit your focus. In the case of Vendetta in order to fully give a main female character the attention she deserves as a woman going into a masculine environment without pulling a Broadsides (I loved CoB, and thought their decision worked for that particular game) you'd have to tailor the game to her, which is a lot of energy. It's not that a worthy or amazing story can't be created with a gun mole. It's just that the developer may want to throw the focus elsewhere. For the record, I actually have not played Vendetta because I can't play a female character. HOWEVER, I don't hold the decision against the developer, and just go "huh, this game probably isn't my cup of tea because I like to play women" rather than mention it in the thread.

Also, I tend to think the games I make have a certain "feminine" air (although how the hell you're supposed to define feminine I don't know since it's, again, a nebulous concept). That's just my impression of my own writing, and so although I can create male protagonists, I also like to play to my strengths.

However, I do like @idonotlikeusernames' idea for the role a male character could have, which is why I'm not throwing out the suggestion for a male option immediately.

@Farside good points and well made.

Personally I don't mind if I have a choice or not but I am not really keen on the gender-swap used in CoB (although I liked CoB) as I'd prefer for that choice to have a difference on the story, not to make one gender 'better' than another but to give me enough of a reason to playthrough as both genders (CotV has differences if you choose to be male/female for example being a female German when you take Samantha on the tour she comments about how she has heard of you)

In "Unnatural" I am trying to make it so the game will offer two distinct playthrough depending on your gender (ie one character refuses to let you into a party unless your female as he doesn't want any competition,) I am even planning to find a female writer to help refine the female path to make it more unique.

I just got into CoG recently, dragging through old forums isn't my thing cx I probably should take this as a hint to not say things when I dont know much about them though. 8->

@Nocturnal_Stillness

Gender is a difficult subject to tackle, but it's also something I'm interested in. Just because it's difficult I don't think it should be ignored, although it should be approached with sensitivity and care. One needs to be open-minded, actually study the subject and try to come to an understanding of how people operate within society's gender norms. I'm very passionate about the subject myself. I get the backlash, though. Nobody likes to be told they can't do something just because of their sex or gender, and some interpret excluding one sex from the game as an implicit statement about that sex.

I was actually a little put-off at first when you said in the Unnatural thread that the game would be distinct depending on the MC's sex. However, since then I've thought about it and have come to understand what you mean. A certain flavor would permeate a female MC's story from the touches that are added. The SRT reminds me of a police force in a sense, and sex is a very complicated issue when in a police-type or military-type environment.

I like the idea of getting a female writer to add her own flair to the female MC's side of the story.

@Patch101

Don't worry about it. I understood your point. In general in media male perspectives tend to outnumber female or other (because I don't believe sex is strictly male/female, although societal gender norms tend to be) perspectives. Male perspectives tend to be seen as the "normal" perspective, and female perspectives become the "other."

@Farside, but.....blowing shit is the fun the part. :-((

@MusicLover

Ohhhhh, there'll be some well-placed bombs in the story.

Okay :3
I just don't want to make people upset with me. It makes me sad when people are upset with me :c

@Patch101

No offense was meant, I was just pointing out that people complaining at male-only game happened.

@Farside

I understand what you mean, my intention is not to make it so someone is punished for wanted to play as a female MC but to reward people for replaying as the opposite gender to see how the story alters.

I'm male and tend to play through as a male MC, but I also like playing as a female MC to see how it changes and to try different things. (I tend to be a lot more flirty when I'm a female MC because I'm usually shy so that is how I play when my character is based on myself.

None was taken c:
I don't see how I could have been taking offense. I was the one saying the offensive things cx

Exactly. You shouldn't punish the player for picking one sex over the other, but you can enhance their playthrough by making it a choice that matters in their environment (but not necessarily a choice that affect their capabilities).

@Patch101

you weren't being offensive just uninformed lol

@Farside, the part where I said: "it's just plain wrong" actually referred not so much to the game in general as it was simply meant as a response to @Drazen's post since his comment simply struck me as a surprisingly ignorant statement for someone who usually tends to err on the pedantic side.

As a player, the fact that I generally have much more difficulty forming any sort of attachment or emotional investment with a female player character doesn't mean I'll never ever play one, even if only to chase after a particularly cute male character (Alistair, *cough* *cough*) or out of general curiosity and perhaps a bit of boredom to, like @Nocturnal_Stillness said, see the differences a female character can cause in a game world where I previously enjoyed playing a male character.

@Faside glad you liked my little example.

Of course, stating that gender distinctions exist is sexist, do forgive me my idiocy.

Contemptuous sarcasm aside, it is a matter of fact that men are systemically better at things women are not, and, let us be clear: vice versa. This is a statement on trends, rather than on absolute restrictions (for example, female body builders are stronger than most men, but it is still true that men are better inclined towards muscle power). Now, I would say that men and women are inclined naturally to be better suited to certain tasks due to the evolutionary advantage of specialisation: women, for example, are biologically nurturers, and consequently are, in general, in possession of a heightened faculty for emotive awareness, which would render them far superior in an environment of seduction and persuasion. This is, again, a statement on averages not absolutes.

That the character, I think, should be female is connected to this. Because, since women and men are not identical, society has grown to treat them differently, then all gender choices become consequential in interactions. This means that not only would acts of charismatic deception be better suited to a womanly role, but other characters interactions would be tailored uniquely as such in partial reaction to the gender. Therefore, playing as a woman here would likely give a richer and more realistic gameplay.

@Drazen your disscuss was used for the spanish dictator franco to forbide the woman study laws and medicine. Women are good in differents things than the man, the emotions and charm is good to care the children and ills, and she is the house's queen. But this emotion doesnt make suitable for logical and scientifics profesions so to protect the women we dont allow women to study these careers. Thanks god now my country is a democracy, and i could finish my law studies . Please there are women discriminated to post that stuff please

@MaraJade

I think @Drazen is just saying that women as a whole have a certain inclination, not that every single individual female should bow to that generality. He said it's a statement of "averages and not absolutes." That's a big difference between what Drazen is saying and what Franco did by applying that generality to individuals.

Whether men and women are different, and how and why societal gender norms developed is a huge can of worms, however.

@MaraJade I agree, there should be no gender-preference whatsoever in legislation. This is a cultural matter pertaining to social interaction, rather than state discrimination. That a dictator agreed with me on a few points is rather irrelevant.

@Drazen ok, but its better remember that generalities are dangerous and can create racism and violence. But in a cultural and antropological point of view i cant agree with you more.

I want to know more about the game

@vampierkid222

I would elaborate more, but since it's all rough and sketchy I don't know much more. The MC is Russian, probably female, and she'll be a part of the KGB, which did have spies in target countries, as an agent. There'll be all sorts of things. Here's a little excerpt from Wikipedia (I know, not the most accurate nor my only source, but quick and convenient).

"The KGB classified its spies as agents (intelligence providers) and controllers (intelligence relayers). The false-identity or legend assumed by a USSR-born illegal spy was elaborate, using the life of either a "live double" (participant to the fabrication) or a "dead double" (whose identity is tailored to the spy). The agent then substantiated his or her legend by living it in a foreign country, before emigrating to the target country, thus the sending of US-bound illegal residents via the Soviet embassy in Ottawa, Canada. Tradecraft included stealing and photographing documents, code-names, contacts, targets, and dead letter boxes, and working as a "friend of the cause" or agents provocateur, who would infiltrate the target group to sow dissension, influence policy, and arrange kidnappings and assassinations."

Your character will have the opportunity to choose their "dead double" or "live double" identity and create their legend. You'll also be able to create your real identity. The MC will also be under constant surveillance by the KGB.

EDIT: Also, if you DON'T regularly report back to your superiors there will be consequences.

@Drazen, while my command of the English language may not exceed your own, sir, I am perfectly able to recognize most expressions of both sarcasm and contempt just fine. I do *not* need you to helpfully inform me when they are being utilised.

"which would render them far superior in an environment of seduction and persuasion."
This and many other things in your posts are indications that you hold a very limited view of "acts of charismatic deception" since not every act of seduction is necessarily aimed at the trouser rocket. Remember, this is America and "greed is good" men and women can be seduced in many other ways than with the promise of sex. For example one Bernard Madoff was able to charismatically deceive, dare I say even seduce, a great number of (prominent) men and women for more than thirty years and was thus able to build an empire on a combination of trust and greed of his targets. Would a fictional Bernadette Madoff have had to do different things to reach the same goals and would that perhaps have been (much) more difficult for her to accomplish? Likely so, but exploring the different routes to the same goals is one of the greatest potential strenghts of any COG product.
So in short, superior no, different yes.

Furthermore the "richer and more realistic gameplay" you reserve for the female role would depend entirely on how @Farside chooses to write this game and as such is not something we can even presume to judge right now.

@idonotlikeusernames ...And Roxelana was probably more adept at intrigue than Koprulu Mehmed Pasha. An individual counter-example cannot eradicate a claim of averages, merely a claim of absolutes, - which I specified I was not making.

I never said persuasion, or for that matter seduction, was aimed at sexual matters. That was an assumption on your part, and an erroneous one as well for I certainly would not make such a claim.

Certainly, the overall value of the work is dependent upon the skill of @Farside - let us hope she achieves success in this matter. This does not prevent me from giving my opinion of what she should strive towards, since even a veritable masterpiece could be improved.

@Farside You do write in a more feminine way. It's hard to define what exactly makes it feel like that, but it's definitely there.

Personally, I never choose to play as a female, but I have no qualms about playing as one if given no choice. Most games are all about suspension of disbelief; can I not believe for one second that I am a female Russian spy? Why, I'd probably have more in common with this character than I do with, say, Kratos, or any other number of testosterone ridden men in games.

If you can create a better game by writing in a female perspective only, well, than do that. If you feel you can create a more interactive game by including both genders, than do that.

@Trywm

That's partially why I want to have a female-only game. It's not that I want to exclude people or make some implicit statement about males and females, the feminine and the masculine. It has more to do with myself as a writer, and what I feel my strengths are. Not that I'm trying to limit myself. It's just I can make a much more awesome game with a female protagonist than a male. If someone wants to pursue the same or similar concept with a male protagonist for their game, I'm certainly not opposed to that. I'm just more comfortable with what I define as "the feminine." It's what I like to write. So although a worthy story certainly could be written with a male protagonist, or a protagonist that can be either male or female, that just might not be what I want to write.

@Farside its your story write it what you think is better. I play a lot of games as a male and i dont lost my feminity, whatever think that it is. So guys can play a game like a female, its like never play lara croft or a final fantasy game

@Marajade
I think that's the problem. There's so many games with a male perspective that male gamers start demanding it. There are a few that manage female characters, but usually they're from an older and more familar series (like tomb raider and final fantasy).

You should write what ever you feel comfortable with Farside. It's your story.

Cool concept. Look forward to you writing it...

Said everything I have to say on writing gender choice into historical CoGs here a few months ago.

But I'd also say to the guys who can't bear to "play" a woman in a computer game -- think about why not. To me, it sounds like you've bought into some weird, unnecessarily restrictive vision of masculinity that will keep you from enjoying (at the very least) some pretty great games.